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Thread: Preventative measures

  1. #1
    Ninja Panda Is Ninja godeshus's Avatar
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    Preventative measures

    The following article spawned a discussion on facebook.

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/Hudso...451/story.html

    MONTREAL – Marshall Brooks’s cheekbone was broken in two places and his eye socket shattered when one of his classmates gave him a vicious beating last week just outside their Westwood Senior High School yard.

    But what was most horrifying to the seasoned police officers and school principal who viewed video footage of the attack in Hudson is that not one of the 50 or so students looking on tried to stop the beating or bothered to call 911.

    Instead, they captured the action on their cellphones, eager to upload the drama to the Web. Only after the damage was done did someone step in.

    “I saw the video and can’t believe no one intervened, or called police or even tried to help the young man,” Sûreté du Québec spokesperson Sgt. Bruno Beaulieu said.

    “It was an unfair fight, like between David and Goliath, with the attacker at least twice the size of the victim.”

    A 17-year-old Westwood student, whose name cannot be published because he’s a minor, was charged with assault causing bodily harm. He was released to his parents on a promise to appear in court.

    He’s not allowed on school property for the rest of the academic year.

    Brooks, 17, is recuperating at his Rigaud home after having reconstructive surgery at Montreal General Hospital. Doctors feared he might lose the sight in his left eye, but, fortunately, it has returned – albeit a bit blurry.

    “The kids didn’t seem to get that what they were watching was something dangerous,” said Brooks’s mother, Tina.

    “Some were his friends and didn’t or couldn’t do anything, and instead of calling 911, they were creating something cool and funky for Facebook.”

    Brooks said he remembers being put in a headlock, pulled to the ground and punched repeatedly. But he said the fact that no one came to his rescue – and worse, recorded his suffering – doesn’t surprise him.

    “It’s high school tradition to record everything and every fight,” he said.

    “And compared to what you can find on TV or the Internet, a fight is nothing.”

    The video of the beating has since been taken down from YouTube.

    Such blasé acceptance of violence among youth, who are infatuated with uploading their lives to the Internet, has educators and police wondering how to teach this plugged-in generation responsible “digital citizenship.”

    “The logistics of trying to police every single phone in the school is impossible,” principal Sheila Honeyborne said, adding that 80 to 90 per cent of the student population at Westwood Senior High in Hudson has a cellphone or smartphone. “They’re here and aren’t going away.

    “So we try to teach them responsibility and ethics. Unfortunately, this (incident) wasn’t ethically correct. It was really tragic and unfortunate.”

    Beaulieu said police are there to enforce the law, but it’s up to parents and educators to teach morals.

    Not only did the attack on Brooks not trigger the Good Samaritan gene in any of the onlookers, the beating also seems to have been planned. Invitations to view the attack went out on Twitter and Facebook well ahead of time, Beaulieu said. About 10 per cent of the Westwood’s student population, or 50 kids, turned out for the beating.

    Judging from the video, Honeyborne said, it appeared the fight was organized but Brooks was caught unawares. The students also seemed to be desensitized to the sheer viciousness of the blows to Brooks, Honeyborne said.

    “One thing I noticed from the video (of the attack) is the students aren’t watching the fight in real time, they’re watching it on the screen, so that sense of urgency or justice is dampened,” she said. “It’s really quite remarkable.”

    The Lester B. Pearson School Board, to which Westwood belongs, has recently introduced a “digital citizenship program” into its curriculum. The program, detailed on the board’s website, compares the Internet to the Wild West, where some people chose to do as they please without regard for their fellow citizens.

    The program provides information to parents and teachers, covering such topics as etiquette and rights and responsibilities when it comes to using technology.

    In the wake of the attack on Brooks, Honeyborne’s school has invited a group from the local YMCA to speak to students about bullying and appropriate behaviour for bystanders. Honeyborne spoke to the students after the attack and some admitted they should have done something.

    “Some did step in, but it was too late,” she said. “We need to talk about what it is to be a citizen with morals, ethics and principles.”

    She also hopes to hold a session in mid-May to urge parents to speak to their children about using their digital devices responsibly – not an easy task for parents who may not be as well-versed in technology as their kids.

    “We have to have frank discussions with them that just because they have iPhones that can do practically anything, with that comes responsibility,” Honeyborne said. “It’s a very difficult conversation to have ... when they’re much more fluent in the language of these devices than we are.”

    Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Hudso...#ixzz1sMiUeQmR
    This happened at the high school I attended so there were some emotions racing in the discussion and some interesting ideas came up.

    One such was that the students who were filming should be held accountable for not helping and for uploading the videos to the web. One person said that they should be charged with...something, they weren't sure what but they should definitely be charged with something.

    Now, I myself agree with the strategy adopted by the schoolboard, which is to develop outreach programs to teachers and parents to help them talk to their children about the responsibilities involved with the devices they use, as well as to introduce programs that can teach kids ethics in regards to technology.

    While the article in question is in the OP, I do not wish to limit this debate to the article, but rather preventative measures in general.

    To help kick start this debate, however, in regards to the article:

    If you were in a position of authority( any postion- a parent, a teacher, vp of the schoolboard, police, etc) and could influence the outcome of the situation, what would you do?

    /discuss

    -godeshus
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  2. #2
    *Leader of the Bloodsport Brigade & Ninjess Concubine* Rivoc's Avatar
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    i do have my teaching degree. what id like to see all sachool adopt, is some kind of program, or 30 mins a week with your students just to talk about ethics. to be effective, i believe it should start in first grade, maybe up to 7th or 8th or hell, maybe even the whole way. its so important to be a positive role model to your students. (i had one really awesome teacher that did such and that was my reason for wanting to teach)

    I want schools to focus on good positive morality and citizenship. you just dont see a lot of it these days. yeah, you do here and there. and i know thats partially on the media too, for focusing on the bad rather than the good, mostly, cause they know they can get better ratings doing so. or thats my belief.

    when you get kids interested in good morality, get them to share stories, use hypothetical situations and LET THEM LEAD THE DEBATE or come up with ideas.... that participation can really mold a life in a great positive direction. its so important to let your students lead discussions to when you get one of those "teachable moments" where they start asking you, the teacher, questions about a topic and other students join in as well. in the US, you're actually encouraged to stop your lesson and go with the "teachable moment" that has your class' interest peaked, cause you cant beat that type of learning. when they want to know something (meaning more than just a few students) you fuckin explore/discuss. kids arent just magically interested in everything, so they want you to capitalize on that special teaching when you can, to a responsible, not out-of-hand degree.

    i think a little program like that, similar to D.A.R.E. (a program where a police officer comes in onc a week for 30 minutes just to make sure kids no dangers of drugs n stay away, but discussion is often led by children/the class) would work wonders. but instead of just once a week for 10 weeks, this shit should stay for the year.

    when you start developing them at a younger age, you're much more likely to have better success IMO. and enough shit happens in real life where they can talk and participate and discuss at 1st grade. thats my idea: teach them responsibility, morality, and good citizenship, and start weening them slowly at a young age, and let them have fun with it and guide it so they can direct the discussion and let the teacher facilitate it. just 30 mins once a week or so. gotta make sure it sticks.

    DIGRESSING RANT: i know my country is cutting down and slashing the education budget, and a lot of these times its programs similar to this, and the arts, that first get cut. i cant even get a job in my hometown, or even the county cause its so corrupt. my elem school had 2 openings 2 summers ago, and i know the receptionist is my friends mom and she said OVER 2 THOUSAND APPLICATIONS and they "already knew who they wanted"/were going to hire. such a shame, but thats not meant to be discussed here. it tied in to my idea, kinda. just sayin.


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  3. #3
    Ninja Panda Is Ninja godeshus's Avatar
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    Yeah you raise a really good point Rivoc. At my High School we had MRE or MRI which was Moral and religious education/instruction. It was part of our curriculum for the whole year, once a week, for an hour, from grade 5 to 11 (graduation year). While the topic is large we focused on such things as sexual education, morality within a society, and religious tolerance.

    I believe strongly that good education (not just scholarly education) is a base that can fix all kinds of problems and morality issues. For example, this story is becoming viral throughout my Fb friends, and the multitude of comments is serving to shame the kids who filmed and uploaded without helping. That is a powerful form of education and I'm sure many of those kids, confronted with a similar situation in the future, will act accordingly to what they have learned from this experience.

    What I don't believe in is the ideas that keep popping up that the kids who watched should be punished by the judicial system. I fail to see 1)what they would be sentenced with to begin with and 2) what it would accomplish anyway. All it would do is put a bunch of kids who made some poor moral choices (which we all have done at one point or another in our lives) into a system that seems more designed to keep them there.

    -godeshus
    “I met a person with a dollar. We exchanged dollars and we each still had a dollar. I met a person with an idea. We exchanged ideas and now we both have 2 ideas."
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  4. #4
    Teddy Bear's Soft n Fluffy Baby Bunny (a.k.a. Anti-Spam Deputy & Lit Mod) Marisanna's Avatar
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    At least in the state that I live in, you can stand by and watch someone drown or commit suicide and do nothing. There is nothing saying you have to "prevent" someone else's death. You can't be the "cause" of it. STUPID...in my opinion. To me, there is a moral obligation to do something. Call for assistance, throw a rope, something.

    In the case of those kids, I would have gotten my ass in trouble because my foot would have wound up in some or all of their asses. I tell parents in the store not to pick their kids up by yanking their arms above their heads. Yes...I am one of those people who will tell other parents not abuse their kids. Having had my arm wretched above my head and it dislocated, I know how easy it is to do and most people don't realize how much force they are jerking the arms up.

    I agree some program needs to be instituted to work on teaching decent, moral, ethical behavior...respect...honor. Character traits that seem to have been lost when people started to worry about being their kids best friend instead of being a PARENT. I have always told my kids, I am your MOM not your best friend. I will never be your best friend because if I have to worry that you might not like me because I disciplined you, then I failed at doing the most important job I have.

    A huge thank you to both Yaguara and Kyphe for my amazing signatures!!

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  5. #5
    Ninja Panda Is Ninja godeshus's Avatar
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    Do you believe there should be laws in place obliging a citizen to help another when needed?

    -g
    “I met a person with a dollar. We exchanged dollars and we each still had a dollar. I met a person with an idea. We exchanged ideas and now we both have 2 ideas."
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________


    I've come to stealz your waffles! ~ Lena
    *Awarded Star of Awesomeness* AND
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    The River Styx

  6. #6
    Ninja Panda Is Ninja godeshus's Avatar
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    And I think that the mentality shift towards being your child's friend started happening when increasing instances of both parents working full time or going to school means less time is spent with those children, making time spent with them precious. What little time is spent with the children I think makes parents want to be their friends and want to avoid confrontation. I'm talking out of my ass here, though. It's just a stab in the dark.

    -g
    “I met a person with a dollar. We exchanged dollars and we each still had a dollar. I met a person with an idea. We exchanged ideas and now we both have 2 ideas."
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  7. #7
    Teddy Bear's Soft n Fluffy Baby Bunny (a.k.a. Anti-Spam Deputy & Lit Mod) Marisanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godeshus View Post
    And I think that the mentality shift towards being your child's friend started happening when increasing instances of both parents working full time or going to school means less time is spent with those children, making time spent with them precious. What little time is spent with the children I think makes parents want to be their friends and want to avoid confrontation. I'm talking out of my ass here, though. It's just a stab in the dark.

    -g
    I agree with you that is a logical timing and situation for how the being "friends" with your kids started.

    Quote Originally Posted by godeshus View Post
    Do you believe there should be laws in place obliging a citizen to help another when needed?

    -g
    I truly don't know G. To me, we have people who stop to help someone who may have been in an accident and if that person still dies because of their injuries, the "good samaritan" can be sued by the family for wrongful death. So I can see pros and cons for having it be a law obliging a citizen to help and for not having the law.

    People freeze or unable to offer assistance, should they be legally responsible...no in my opinion. But if someone doesn't freeze and just video tapes the incident, then I think there is some responsibility. But, it is for many more minds to help determine what is the best course of action.

    A huge thank you to both Yaguara and Kyphe for my amazing signatures!!

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  8. #8
    Ninja Panda Is Ninja godeshus's Avatar
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    The problem I have with such a law is that it must also encompass a situation where someone is filming police brutality for the same purpose of uploading to the web. Or during a riot. I wouldn't want my freedom of expression limited or even taken away for any reason.

    Although in Canada we have good samaritan laws that protect individuals who are helping others, so you can't be sued for breaking someone's arm while attempting to save their life. In Quebec, however, we have a duty to help as described by our provincial samaritan acts, but it's pretty lenient - I've never heard of anyone being charged for not helping. It makes me curious as to where this story will lead, though.

    -g
    “I met a person with a dollar. We exchanged dollars and we each still had a dollar. I met a person with an idea. We exchanged ideas and now we both have 2 ideas."
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________


    I've come to stealz your waffles! ~ Lena
    *Awarded Star of Awesomeness* AND
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________


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    The River Styx

  9. #9
    Defender Of The Cause kyphe's Avatar
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    In France they already have good Samaritan laws, choice is action, choosing to do nothing is action, actions have consequences. The penalties do not have to be severe, it is often effective to simply have a token penalty along with a publicized record of your conviction for wrongdoing which implies either cowardice, malice or a disturbing indifference to the suffering of others.

    filming the fight is not the issue, sending the video to the police or the school would be a clear sign that good intentions were at least present, as the video is the primary evidence of the guilt of the accused.

    schools should have a system where kids can send recordings of things they see happening, this would turn the phones into a helpful tool.

    uploading the videos to the web is clearly a civil infringement, and the kid who was beaten has every right to take those who did to court for damages, however it could also be a criminal infringement, similar to if someone filmed a rape and uploaded that.

    in this case as the kids were invited to watch, they could be charged with accessory to the attack, as they were the intended audience.
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